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JAZZY16
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: 04-11-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-11-2006 at 08:36 |
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I NEED HELP
HI I AM VIRGIN AND SOMETIMES I WANT TO MASURBATE CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT IT IS I NEED TO DO
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 04-11-2006 at 10:03 |
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advice
I strongly advice you not to do it. Stay away! There is no need for such un-natural ways of pleasure. Also, abstain from any kind of sex and hence keep your virginity until you meet the right person. for further questions feel free to ask: hfermion@gmail.com
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John24
Junior Member
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-11-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-11-2006 at 20:58 |
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re
I am a regular masturbator and apart from anything else I am reliably informed it is GOOD for avoiding prostate cancer. I think the penis is an amazing bit of the anatomy and deserves good care and stimulation. How is masturbating any different from scratching your arm or head? The genitals should be celebrated not something to be ashamed of.
"Blood stimulation" to the genitals is also a sign of health and vitality.
My grandfather has been mastubating since he was 6 years old, and he is now the healthiest person I know.
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 04-13-2006 at 03:59 |
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no good in it
quote:
GOOD for avoiding prostate cancer
Sorry, but It is just NONSENSE!
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John24
Junior Member
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-11-2006 Location:
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dreamangel
Member
Posts: 64
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-15-2006 at 18:53 |
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Also...
Also, there are studies showing that married men tend to live longer? I mean it is probably a fringe benifit of being married. If you don't use certian parts of the body they tend to break down. It does make sense at some level. (Whether achieved through masturbation or intercourse, it is essentially the same biological funtions) The only difference between masturbation and intercourse is that masturbation is only physical. There is no emotional connection. But it does make sense that the more the body ejaculates, the healthier.
According to Dr. Ed Wheat in "Sexual Techniques and Sexual Problems in Marriage", part of the treatment for Prostatitis (inflamation - not cancer - of the prostate) is daily ejaculations.
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 04-17-2006 at 09:24 |
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I agree
When it comes to males and masturbation there are only 2 kinds of liars:
1) those who say they never did it and
2) those who say they quit!
Don't worry what you're doing is very normal. Statistics show that 97% of all people masturbate. (both men and women) That leaves 3% of asexuals who have below average sex drives.
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 04-22-2006 at 11:10 |
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not true!
Why would a non-doer and non-asexual lie about this issue?  I personally don't!
Secondly, physical ejaculation without sense of love, to me it's very mean and unacceptable. This act is nothing but degradation of the soul..
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 04-22-2006 at 11:20 |
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health
By the way, I'm 25, and I am very healthy guy.. believe or not, it's been 13 years I never been ill and I don't remember having a headache. Being honest, I don't know much about names of the medicine (well, I know aspirin, cuz I hear it a lot all around). During the childhood, usual stuff; rare coughs, colds.. etc.
Every time I visit this forum, somehow I feel need to love somebody soooooo much; and just can't wait until I finish my doctoral research and get married (with the purest and beautiful girl on planet, hopefully )
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John24
Junior Member
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-11-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-22-2006 at 15:11 |
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Biblical study on Masturbation
I have talked to so many folks who suffered a great deal over the issue of masturbation. I've talked to both men and women who were taught it was sin, but could not stop doing it no matter what they did. I know some who left the church because of guilt. I know a woman who offered herself to her boyfriend because that caused her less guilt than the masturbation she could not stop. I know guys who masturbated in secret as fast as they could, resulting in life long premature ejaculation or an unshakable shame over their bodies.
I see "masturbation is sin" as a LIE which has caused a great deal of pain and suffering to individuals, and I see the ramifications of that lie as having hurt a lot of marriages.
What about those who have a strong desire to be intimate with their spouse and cannot for one reason or another (they are married to a refuser, the spouse is away for work, the spouse is ill and cannot have sex, etc) be intimate?? Masturbation for these people is the ONLY way to relieve their desire without going beyond the bonds of marriage.
Some women have used masturbation to learn what they enjoy (so they can better enjoy their husbands).
Some women have used masturbation to learn how to orgasm, again, so they can enjoy intimacy with their husbands as God intended.
What do you say to these women who've masturbated(and continue to do so) for the betterment of their marriage? You just going to tell them that if they cannot learn it with their husbands then they are just doomed and God did not intend for them to enjoy intimacy?!
No Christian has the right to tell another Christian that something is a sin unless it is a VERY specific topic that God has defined in Scripture. No Christian has the right to put words in the mouth of God and CERTAINLY doesnt have the right to define unspecified sin for another mans walk.
Masturbation can train the man to control his ejaculation. It helps the woman to learn to Orgasm. There are other benefits as well. It must be used with a pure mind, but can be used to CONTROL lust.
Since there is no Scripture condemning the act of masturbation as a sin, it stands to reason that it is an act which has the potential to be HONOURING to God and is in accord with the fact that the Holy Spirit lives in the believer. Solitary masturbation is not an act which harms the individual's body (and in fact, the release of sexual tension does promote the wellbeing of the individual. Since no Scripture condemns masturbation, it stands to reason that it is an act which has the potential to be honoring to God. body). Through the release of sexual tensions (particularly in young men) it can act as a barrier to seeking release through immoral outlets such as pornography, prostitution, premarital sex, or homosexual activity. A part of honoring God with our bodies is doing whatever is necessary to keep our bodies under control-and in the area of sexuality, masturbation can be an effective way of doing so.
The second "boundary" Scripture is Philippians 4:8: "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable-if anything is excellent or praiseworthy-think about such things."
In this Scripture we have a boundary that deals with the mind and thought life. One of the difficulties with masturbation in the minds of many people is that it is automatically assumed that sexual fantasies must be used in order to gain the amount of stimulation needed for orgasm to take place. While it is true that sexual fantasies CAN be used, there is nothing which suggests that they MUST be used. The choice is up to the individual as to what they think about during masturbation. The body is designed by God to respond to sexual stimulation, but it was never designed to respond exclusively to impure thoughts. God has placed within us a wide capacity for response to various stimuli. It is no more necessary to fantasize about the cheerleader next door during masturbation than it is to fantasize about eating a steak while dining at McDonalds! Nor is it necessary to view pornography while masturbating. The viewing of pornography is actually detrimental to the experience, since the person looking at it knows there is no way of ever fulfilling the fantasies that he is locked into while using pornography. And since pornography is clearly a violation of the commandment not to lust after a person, such activity introduces the element of sin into an experience that should have been used for the glory of God.
So what can be thought about during masturbation? That brings us to our final "boundary" Scripture, found in Colossians 3:17: "Whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him." And a companion Scripture is found in Colossians 3:1-2: "Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things."
It is clear from Scripture that our thought life is to be one of purity and joy and one that is characterized by its focus on God. This is no pie-in-the-sky theology. Either the Bible is eminently practical in how its principles can be lived out or it is not. It is possible to do everything with a spirit and attitude of thanksgiving to God, regardless of the task at hand. A person can focus their heart on Jesus swinging a hammer at a construction site just as much as they can when entering the sanctuary of a church. Here It is clear from Scripture that our thought life is to be one of purity and joy. be no difference between sacred and secular thought. Each thought should be given over to the control of Christ (2 Corinthians 10:5), and should be offered to God in a spirit of gratitude and joy. The only exception to this would be when the thought life has strayed out of its proper boundaries and has embraced sinful thoughts, such as the viewing of pornography or lusting after another person.
So, given the boundaries, is it possible to masturbate without straying into sinful thoughts? The answer is YES, for God, in designing the human body, has given it the ability to respond to physical stimuli without the necessity of embracing sinful thought patterns.
And it is all right to ENJOY the pleasurable feelings which accompany the activity. For example, when someone eats their favorite food, they are enjoying the pleasure of the feel and the taste of the food. Is it sinful to enjoy eating a chocolate bar? No. It only becomes a sin if the activity and the pleasure of eating become something which crowds out God, becoming an end to itself rather than being seen as a blessing from a loving God. At that point, any activity, whether eating, playing golf, watching a sunset, or masturbating, has been abused and the person has fallen into the sin of idolatry. Therefore, when a person masturbates, their body will respond to the pleasurable physical stimulation that it is being given--especially teenage boys, whose testosterone and other hormone levels are at an all-time high and whose physical need for sexual release is very great (in fact, they are quite capable of achieving orgasm without ever once thinking of having sex with the latest monthly centerfold!). And if the thought life is kept under control, the act becomes an experience of BLESSING from the Lord, rather than a shameful one. The sin does not come in enjoying the experience, but rather in ABUSING a gift that a loving and gracious God has given to His children.
But we're looking for something even more here. We are looking for a way to "redeem the experience," giving honor and glory to God for the gifts He has given us. One of those gifts is SEXUALITY and the pleasure which God has made possible in our bodies. It therefore follows that the best way to masturbate is to focus the MIND on God, giving THANKS to Him for the pleasure which the person is feeling and for the gift of sexuality that He has given, as well as gratitude for the ability to gain a needed sexual release WITHOUT the possibility of illicit sexual contact.
Therefore, you can take any activity, whether it's eating, or masturbating and MAKE it into something negative if you start out with the subjective feelings that it's negative....
Most of the arguments we see against masturbation seem to work because the person making them STARTS with the belief that masturbation IS wrong. If someone starts with the question "is it sin??" and studies the scripture to find the TRUTH rather than to support what they have already "decided" the truth SHOULD be, the results are different. It is my prayer that asking "why DIDN'T God say masturbation is sin??" will help people to reexamine the issue and find a Biblically sound answer.
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 04-23-2006 at 13:53 |
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Why?
Maybe this is a good place to jump in with a question for you all. I'd really like to know why and where the kind of thinking that masturbation is wronge comes from? It's rampant in the church! The thinking that sexual drive is something to be battled is everywhere. Where did this WAR metaphor come from? Who said that sexual drive and passion were a battle? Who came up with this idea? Is it really something that needs to be suppressed? I don't think God made a mistake when he gave us this gift. And I think He's shown us very well how to use it. And I honestly can't believe that those who distribute such thinking don't participate in the evil M deed themselves. It's just not reasonable to think so.
"Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence."
This verse maybe suggests a reason for this crusade? In verse 23 perhaps people have this need to control the masses and people in the church want someone to tell them what to do--how to live? They just want to be given all the answers. So, those with influence wield an "appearance of wisdom". The Soviet Union saw that one work very well.
I'd love to hear some opinions on this one. Why is such a large group of people--a majority of society--so easily swayed by such an obvious error? Why do they invite such bondage and guilt?
Thanks all
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John24
Junior Member
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-11-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-23-2006 at 13:55 |
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Some History
Melvaughn- the Bible actually has very little to do with churches being so negative about sexual drive. It has more to do with church history, and some early teachings that were picked up and made official by the medieval Catholic church.
Why are priests, monks, nuns, and the higher-ups in the RCC celibate? Why doesn't the RCC like birth control? Why is the word masturbation even hard to say for some us? Where did we ever get the idea that Song of Songs was about Jesus?
To make a big long history lesson short, here's two big reasons.
1. The most influential Christian theologian ever - Augustine - taught that every human being needs a saviour. That's nice, I agree. But to prove it, he taught that (a) every person is conceived through sex, (b) sexual pleasure is inherently sinful, (c) therefore every newborn is stained with sin from conception. Therefore, everyone is sinful. He made his point (and eventually won an important historical debate with it), but the church's teaching on sexuality suffered. But why was he so negative about sex in the first place. Aside from his well-known personal reasons (see thebigfish's post) there was this...
2. "Marriage populates the earth, but virginity populates heaven." That's a quote from Jerome, another 'Early Church Father,' and it demonstrates a common outlook among theologians (and Greek philosophers) of his day. "Denial of the flesh" was the holiest path to spirituality - not in the way that Jesus and Paul talked about it but in the way ancient Greek philosophers taught about it: the spiritual world and the physical world are two different things and if you want to be spiritual you have to ditch the physical/fleshy things in life. Martyrs were the most spiritual - they totally denied their flesh! Celibates were next, they said no to sex! Once the persecution stopped, celibates and people who starved themselves (called 'encratic fasting') were at the top of the spirituality ladder. Married people who had sex (some decided not to) weren't really even on the ladder.
The anti-sexual teachings of the church can be traced all the way back through the Reformation to the Catholics to the Medieval Catholics to the Early Church Fathers... thank God it can't be traced back to scripture.
ps - we got the idea that Song of Songs was not about sex but about Jesus from a guy who castrated himself in an effort to be more holy.
pps - Augustine's intense guilt from his sexual past played a major role in his conversion experience (often called his "Garden Experience")
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 04-23-2006 at 13:58 |
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Great Explanation
Thanks John24! I appreciate your explanation.
One observation. You can comment if you like.
I think there is a difference between the motives of Augustine and Jerome. Jerome's motives could be considered noble because they came out of a personal conviction that to relinquish some pleasure of life would lead him closer to God. Kind of like how some people see fasting. On the other hand, Augustine's motive was to simply make something sin--something which God created for good. Why? As you suggested: guilt. I would think so.
So, what are the motives of those who tout the evils of sex today? At least one group is making big bucks off of this stuff selling books, CDs, coffee mugs holding seminars and the works all in the name of purity. Everyone rallies around a battle, right? You say "battle" and guys will line up.
You could say their motives are fiscal, but what about the church leaders and lemmings which follow? Is it a genuine desire for purity? Or do they buy into it because of some kind of fear? Fear of death perhaps? Or maybe guilt like Augustine?
Why do I say fear? Well, there is a responsibility that goes with freedom. And maybe it's easier to call something bad which one is afraid to manage, thereby passing the responsibility to another who has a "teaching" which smacks of wisdom and power. And hence now I'm relieved of my responsibility because "he" has the teaching. Unfortunately I'm also relieved of my freedom.
As you see I'm wrestling with this. Junk like what we read at the beginning of this thread would actually sound somewhat authoritative if it had less misspellings and juvenile language. I think people searching for someone to follow would actually fall for it.
I'll quit. Thanks, John24
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John24
Junior Member
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-11-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-23-2006 at 14:00 |
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Also...
I presented a really simplified description of the history. Judging motives from 1500 years away is hard, if not impossible. Don't attempt it just on what's written in the previous post- that's hopeless. Although I think these guys really blew it when it comes to sexuality, they did make very big positive contributions to the church of the years. And given the times they lived in and the influences on their lives, it's hard to imagine them turning out much different than they did. They were in large part products of their times, as are all of us. But they were 'giants of the faith' as well. Augustine's move linking Original Sin to sexuality was honest, I think... he really did believe it. And it was an important, history shifting debate. The other guy was accused of saying that Christ isn't our saviour, just our good example.
Jerome was more extreme than Augustine (i think)... he did say that virginity quote, and also said things about how weddings were for pagans because real Christians wouldn't get married. And it's important to note that the fasting Jerome is talking about is the extreme kind, where you starve or otherwise abuse yourself nearly to death for years. That kind of thing is called encratism. Another anecdote: one account praises this prostitute-turned-nun because she had wasted her body so bad through extreme fasting that they thought she was a guy. Her gender wasn't discovered until they were preparing the body for burial. Another account praises a female martyr because right before she was killed by wild beasts, her body (they claim) was 'smoothed out' - meaning it was masculinized. Along with the anti-sexual bent was an anti-female bent... femininity was lumed in with sexuality and emotions, all of which were detrimental to contemplation, reason, 'undesire,' and a decidedly masculine view of the world.Quote:
So, what are the motives of those who tout the evils of sex today?
Many. Misguided piety. Zealous committment but poor direction. Fear of sexuality's power and lack of faith that God will enable us to steward it faithfully. People sense that the church is going down the tubes culturally speaking so they need to blame something and they choose immorality and throw out part of the baby with the bathwater. People are unaware of their historical theological heritage when it comes to sexuality, so they don't see how their thinking and assumptions is being skewed by the past. PLus all the ones that I'm not aware of that are affecting me! =) I think there's probably a lot to your point on fear.
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 04-23-2006 at 14:04 |
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I agree
The same selective science and factoid dissemination techniques that are used to justify a prohibitive posture with regard to masturbation are often used as well against erotic material (or porn, if you will), and gays in the military, as well as many other controversies (natural foods, global warming, Ritalin, HRT, etc.). This is not a defense of porn- it is merely pointing out that we can have a view of something, good or bad, and grab whatever arguments against it and send them out as though they were dispositive because they sounded sort of scientific.
Dobson, who is not bad on masturbation, did exactly that with porn when he tried to use a death row interview with Ted Bundy to suggest a cause and effect relationship between Bundy's use of porn and his murders. That same type of point is made all the time (I specifically include Arterburn here)- sometimes even here- about porn.
That is not to say that porn is good, helpful, useful, or not a sin- it is rather to use the correct arguments, not straw men. Porn is bad because it is a violation of the marriage, and can be an incitement feeding the mind on unprofitable and sometimes compulsive things, not because it turns you into a pedophile, or a sex addict. Any more than drinking beer turns you into an alcoholic or proponent of vehicular homicide.
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John24
Junior Member
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-11-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-23-2006 at 14:08 |
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Great Observation
Well, there is a responsibility that goes with freedom. And maybe it's easier to call something bad which one is afraid to manage, thereby passing the responsibility to another who has a "teaching" which smacks of wisdom and power. And hence now I'm relieved of my responsibility because "he" has the teaching. Unfortunately I'm also relieved of my freedom.
Astute observation
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 04-23-2006 at 22:23 |
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is there any one?
I really doubt if there is any one with sound mind; so you proved that M is not a sin, nor a bad thing at all? Noo... it's just non-sense!!
Ejaculation without passion and love brings a sorrowful state of mind where soul emerges to a despairful route. Melvaughn, conscience never lies.. and it didn't lie to you either, that's why you find yourself struggling to prove this instinct wrong. Do not try it, there is no way, it's dead end. There is a whole different pure world out of your horizon, the world where people find it un-natural and abstain from this weird act. Beileve or not, it's up to you.
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dreamangel
Member
Posts: 64
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-24-2006 at 18:31 |
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Some people are so blinded
"Ejaculation without passion and love brings a
sorrowful state of mind where soul emerges to a despairful route"
Any activity or behaviour has the ability to become empty but are we to stop living or stop doing these activites??? How do you know that masturbation can't be a freeing and happy experience for someone else??? It feels empty to you because YOU "believe' it is empty. /b] IT is YOUR conscious, therefore do not place your 'personal' conscious on to other people. Do not burden other people with your "doomful" attitudes. To make someone feel guilty over their sexuality and body, does more harm than good. I could say, eating a certain kind of food makes me feel empty, but is the activity itself 'really' empty or is it empty because that is what I was taught and that is what I want to believe???
You might feel negativity but please realize that many people DO NOT feel empty. People can focus on the physical sensation or they can become intune with their bodies. Many women learn to become more confident and comfortable with their bodies as well.
Its so sad to hear stories of how the gift of sexuality is being wasted. I masturbate and feel no shame or guilt. Why impose fear and guilt onto yourself? There is something very freeing in being able to accept your sexuality and your body as a sexual being. Did you ever realize that God maybe gave women a clitoris on the outside of the vagina for the purpose of masturbation? Did you ever think that God maybe gave Masturbation as a gift to help those individual wait until marriage to have sex??? Masturbation helps lots of individual 'improve' their sex lives. Gradboy, you are in for a huge SHOCK if you think you and your wife can get married, having never touched yourself and feel comfortable enough with your bodies to even know HOW to orgasm let alone even enjoy sex. By swallowing the lie that masturbation is somehow evil could have negative consequences that could even dampen your ability to have sex!! Whether you want to believe it or not, masturbation does help many people become comfortale with their bodies.... Did you even read the historical background of where the disapproval of masturbation comes from???? It's rooted in evil and control of the masses. If YOU do not have the 'need' to masturbate, that's good for you, but NO ONE has the right to impose their rules and beliefs onto someone else. People are as different as night and day and what works for you, might be helpful to someone else. So, it is actually detrimental to use your own standards of living and place these rules onto other people who might find masturbation useful for their future marriage, or to help CONTROL their sex drive.
I know a man whose wife is unwilling to have sex with him. She simply refuses him sex!!!! His only option to prevent cheating on his wife is to masturbate. I know other cases where masturbation can be used within a marriage and can also HELP a marriage overcome sexual difficulties.
Like John24 said above, you can take any activity and make it into something evil or impure....but people are not MEANT to be binded down by fear and rules. I could make a case that watching T.V is somehow 'evil and impure' and then distribute this kind of thinking to hundreds of people. But this is called Legalism and controls people. You are essentially using the same argument toward masturbation. Time to re-think the "stigma" of being sexual, no?
Of course, that's why we're all here!
Read carefully what John24 wrote in his long post....you might learn alot.
You also might want to look at the new 'masturbation polls' And considering you are not open to reading what melvaughn has even written, shows that YOU are the only one trying to justify your beliefs, not the other way around. Masturbation is in fact a normal activity that MOST people are comfortable with. You are going to have to start accepting that.
And judging from your responses, it sounds as though you don't bother reading anyone's posts if they differ from your own view. You did not try to dispute any rational comment that was made by anyone else, which shows you did not even read John24 or melvaugh's posts. How can you know what to believe if you base your judgements on 'feelings' rather than logically thinking about both sides of the argument before making your opinions.
You might not be attacked so much if you have the attitude that while masturbation is not right for YOU, it is normal for other people if that is what they want to do. This at least is a healthy opinion.
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John24
Junior Member
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-11-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-24-2006 at 19:15 |
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Also
Gradboy, how do you know it is your concious and not simply brainwashing from bad or false teaching, meant to scare you into thinking M is evil with fear and guilt? People are not born thinking M is evil, these 'so-called' feelings are socially conditioned and learned by society. Babies and children instinctually and naturally begin to masurbate. It's parents and negative teaching or religious upbringings that cause the guilt and negativity.
I trust God's design. God put all of our parts in their respective places on our bodies so that they are convenient to us and to our spouses. He gave us hormones that churn and writhe and drive us much the same way as our appetite for food. We don't call that a "battle" do we? Of course not. God designed us fabulously so that we can enjoy our own bodies and our spouses when we have one. His instructions for intimacy with the "opposite" sex is very clear. No problem there.
I don't think he gave us all of this potential and drive and body parts and expects us to leave them alone. Of course not. If we cherish ourselves, we'll in turn cherish our spouses.
Masturbation has typically always been one of those things that since people were uncomfortable talking about, they would just tend to lump into the category of sin. It is just easier to label it as such than to allow for the freedom of believers, because freedom makes us uncomfortable.
We have the Scriptures as our first, best way to know if masturbation is wrong. And with all of the numerous, plain prohibitions against various kinds of sex acts, including beastiality and homosexuality (not things that are naturally persued by most people), the Scripture is 100% silent about self-pleasure. How difficult would it be after telling a person not to sleep with their mother-in-law to say, "Oh, and by the way, Thou shalt not touch thyself in a manner that shall spill thine seed." It's just not there ANYWHERE in the bible. Therefore, Why would we trust our own "feelings" over the written Word of God?
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 04-24-2006 at 21:39 |
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Don't waste your breath
I wouldn't waste your time guys with long-winded rants...All though I must admit, this is the most intelligent debate I've ever seen on this forum. (Finally some intelligent people here) but you are wasting your energy. Gradboy, doesn't read any of it. He will come back in a few days, and post the same mantra as if he has shut his mind to anything but his own one-sided view, which is fueled on guilt and fear...kind of sad.
It is truly frightening how unable some people are to think if it means changing their minds.
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 04-25-2006 at 00:53 |
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sorry
Guess what? I wrote 3-4 pages long a message and while posting it, my session has been expired and all gone for nothing  
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 04-25-2006 at 01:02 |
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nothing
my computer skill couldn't save my 2-3 hour (3-4 pages) long tedious post. I just can't believe it, my whole night gone for nothing, such a horrible waste of time..
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John24
Junior Member
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-11-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-25-2006 at 18:10 |
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Quote taken from another sex site
"It took me 3 years to reach an orgasm?"
I found this quoted from a women who has now been married for 23 years. The Point is that she had never touched herself her entire life and was 'clued-out' about sex. As a result, she was unable to have sex for six months after marriage and another three years to reach orgasm....It's great to wait until marriage, but I wouldn't place high expectation that the sex is going to be wild and great. You will be lucky if you enjoy it at all the first time. But masturbation DOES help enormously because for those women who were able to achieve orgasm alone were then able to achieve it much easier with their husband.
If you were to talk to any women having orgasm difficulties during sex, more likely than not, they will also tell you that they do not masturbate and do not feel comfortable with their body or sexuality. Sex is psychological more than physical. And women who were taught to be ashamed of their bodies, taught M is wrong, or given a guilt-trip, will have a VERY difficult time enjoying sex or EVER experiencing an orgasm.
If you're future wife masturbates, you should feel thrilled and excited, because the sex will be more enjoyable for both of you and it's also an enormous turn-on!
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 04-25-2006 at 19:16 |
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not really
John24,
Do you realize you made a huuuuuge theory on a single occasion? But all of you here prefer to think the same way you like it to be.. keep going. Some people like Snakes, some are disgusted of it. So, I find it rather cultural erosion or curraption premerital M. All kind of MUTUAL (opposite sex) SEX with love and passion is ADORABLE, JOYFUL, FEEDING THE SOUL, REMOVING THE SORROW AND INCREASES THE LOVE AMONG COUPLES. However, self ejaculation is no more than physical taste which is leaves a very despairful state with sorrow. Premerital M, is a type of pleasure where the ending of it is nothing but pain (of a soul).
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dreamangel
Member
Posts: 64
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-26-2006 at 06:29 |
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Why is only M considered negative but not other activities???
People don't necessarily feel an emotional passion while eating food. The activity itself is only physical but should people starve themselves???? Of course not. Sexual needs can be viewed the same way.
Men have very high sex drives and if they want to wait until marriage to have sex, masturbation is their ONLY relief to help prevent them from having sex outside of marriage, therefore Masturbation can be seen as a GIFT to help control sex drive.
Why look at M so negatively?? Like I said earlier, you can take ANY activity and turn it into something evil and unholy, but we don't do this with eating, or sports or any other emotionless activity. Noooooo, only sexuality, because of the historical ingrained negativity surrounding it has the ability to cause this 'battle' attitude. Take any other activity and no one raises an eye, but why is sex somthing to be ashamed of??? MANY people can view masturbation as a POSITIVE experience. The only reason you view M so negativly is because you've been brainwashed at some point in your past. Councilling might even help you figure this out.
And what about all the women who find masturbation helps them become familiar with their bodies? Women have more complicated bodies and sometimes M is the ONLY way for them to discover how to orgasm, so that they will enter a marriage FREE of sexual difficulties.
It doesn't sound like you read any of these posts since every comment you post sounds exactly the same. If you were reading what we wrote, you'd be trying to rationally dispute comments we've said, but instead you just keep coming back to the same beliefs, meanwhile ignoring all the positive functions Masturbation has been PROVEN to show. You have 'selective' reading, where you focus only on the negative and ignore anything else that could prove you wrong. That shows a real close-mindedness.
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John24
Junior Member
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-11-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-26-2006 at 06:41 |
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Actually...
Actually, Gradboy, I did not make a theory on one assumption. It has been shown through polls and studies that women who do not masturbate while single have a more difficult time experiencing orgasm or enjoying sex with their husbands. Like Dreamangel said, the female body is more complicated. Most women do not orgasm from intercourse (Penis in vagina) THis is WHY women have a clitoris, and this is why it is healthy and normal for women to experiement so as to know what will work for them later on. The correlation might also be due to the fact that women who don't masturbate, also feel shame toward their body or gulit, which all contribute to sexual difficulties in marriage.
I studied human sexuality as an undergrad and I'm more familar than you are with the femal body. I've been married for 30 years I KNOW how difficult it if for women to orgasm if they have any negative feelings about sex or their bodies.
I've interviewed sex therapists who all see an OBVIOUS correlation between women who don't masturbation and later difficulties enjoying sex.
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 04-26-2006 at 10:00 |
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thankies but
Thank you very much for your posts and intelligent discussions. Dreamangel, I do read them all, I read very carefully from the very beginning and wrote a huge dispute with rassional arguments, then with bizzare technical issue I lost it. You are absolutely right on that M, will keep people abstain from premarital sex, but to some extent. Strong sex desire sometimes could find M, very simple and unsatisfaying. John24, thanks for your replies as well. Once I find chace, I intend to re-write a sound dispute regarding premerital M.. to this point, yes, again it's better to prefer M, if you are afraid of not being able to keep way from sex.
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John24
Junior Member
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-11-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-26-2006 at 15:43 |
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One more time....
Just thought I'd add this comment, since this is key for proff that M is not sin. If you personally don't feel right than by all means don't do it. But you cannot condemn other people who feel differently about it....
We have the Scriptures as our first, best way to know if masturbation is wrong. And with all of the numerous, plain prohibitions against various kinds of sex acts, including beastiality and homosexuality (not things that are naturally persued by most people), the Scripture is 100% silent about self-pleasure. How difficult would it be after telling a person not to sleep with their mother-in-law to say, "Oh, and by the way, Thou shalt not touch thyself in a manner that shall spill thine seed." It's just not there ANYWHERE in the bible. Therefore, Why would we trust our own "feelings" over the written Word of God?
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 04-26-2006 at 16:41 |
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thanks but NOT
John24, I don't follow the arguments from scripture! A scripture where prophets are having furnication, which is out of mind and completely unacceptable, thereby none of sexual references are of any value that I should follow.
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John24
Junior Member
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-11-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-26-2006 at 18:16 |
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Misunderstandment
This passage is warning 'against' fornification, against adultary and against homosexuality.....yet the bible is 100% silent on Masturbation. The scripture was written by his disciples inspired by the word of God. I'm not understanding why you believe it's about fornification.
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John24
Junior Member
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-11-2006 Location:
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posted on 04-26-2006 at 18:42 |
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Again
If my wife and I choose to masturbate together, is that sinful?
If a husband and wife are separated (ie. year tour in Iraq) is to sinful for a person to masturbate while thinking of his/her spouse?
If, for physical reasons, a spouse cannot Make love, is it wrong for the other to masturbate?
If one spouse wants to Make love once a week and their mate wants "IT" every day, is masturbation sinful?
I don't believe God made a mistake when masturbation was not mentioned in the Holy Bible.
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